Wow, what timing. Thanks, Vic. Your post is packed with fantastic advice including this: "if it’s experiences you want, there are 1,001 better, faster, cheaper ways to get them than college."
I am a retired college professor so I have put a lot of thought into this these past few years. I would recommend a gap year for many students, especially those that don't have a clear sense of what they want to do with a college degree. Travel might be great for those with means, but I think a service experience would be beneficial for many students. My father (also a college professor) thought everyone should work on a chicken farm for a year (he grew up on one and the experience helped him appreciate college more). Some students are ready for college at 18, but many are not. I saw these students struggle and wonder if they should have waited.
I know students who benefitted from large university campuses and others who loved their experiences at small liberal arts colleges. Heading for the elite colleges might benefit you with the connections you make, but there are benefits from other settings. I taught business at a very large, selective flagship university and at a small liberal arts college that took anyone with a heart beat. Both offered valuable experiences and challenges for students. I found that the students at the small college were given more room and encouragement to develop character and integrity. As an employer, I would not hesitate to hire them even if their GPAs and test scores were lower.
It may be hard, but I would encourage high school students to ask questions about whether they will have the freedom to disagree with their professors and their peers. Ignore the campus PR and go straight to the students. Some of my colleagues were great about encouraging debate. Others were terrible. It often depended upon the discipline.
So much to say, I'll stop there. I believe in the value of a higher education, but believe that there are other options that might better fit a students.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful post, Deborah. Re the freedom to disagree on campus, I recommend checking out FIRE's College Free Speech rankings. That should be a part of ever college-bound kid's process. And here's hoping more employers adopt your point of view: "I found that the students at the small college were given more room and encouragement to develop character and integrity. As an employer, I would not hesitate to hire them even if their GPAs and test scores were lower."
Enjoy activities you love in high school. Don't worry about things "looking good" for a college application. If it's something you really enjoy and it also helps you build connections and gain skills - whether that be with a part-time job, a sports team, doing theater productions, robotics, or something else - you will want to dedicate yourself to it, and that's what stands out on an application and increases your drive. However, if you are so attached to the outcome of the admissions process that's when things don't pay off. You have to enjoy yourself in come capacity, but also make sure to pay attention to your grades!
While it is aspirational to reach for an elite college, I think that it isn't worth the stress and the turmoil that comes with both trying to get in and with attending. While elite schools definitely have the brand name, sometimes being around people who are always "the best" can lead to impossible competition and will only benefit the true over achievers. You want to be able to join clubs and other things once you get onto campus! Also, from the past five years it's been shown how the inner workings of some universities discourages discord and nuance in conversation and thought, so it's worth it to do extra research on campus culture. Ask current students about their experiences, including what they like and don't like about their experiences.
Most importantly, don't think you have to do the four year college route. It's OK if you need to take a gap year after high school, and if it's simply getting a job and working for a full year it will help you make the most out of your college experience.
Lastly, your major DOES matter. While you shouldn't pick a major you will dread, it is also important you are realistic with your choice of major, and to learn real skills that will support you in the work force. As long as you can tolerate the majority of classes and can find some enjoyment, you will be fine. You can always take fun electives to mix things up, but your major will be on your resume when you apply for jobs, so pick carefully.
excellent points, Madeline. I really like this: "While it is aspirational to reach for an elite college, I think that it isn't worth the stress and the turmoil that comes with both trying to get in and with attending. While elite schools definitely have the brand name, sometimes being around people who are always "the best" can lead to impossible competition and will only benefit the true over achievers."
No matter what, take a gap year and travel. See the world on a shoestring budget. I don’t believe it’s possible to really know yourself at 18. Travel can help us figure out who we are and what matters to us.
Love the idea but I think the cost of this would be prohibitive for many/most kids. I would not have been able to swing it, since all of my earnings during high school went to pay for books etc in college.
Good point. I wonder what Maren would advise, but maybe simply working for a year would be the thing to do. And there are ways (e.g. teaching English) where you can work abroad to pay for the trip.
I'd suggest a service based experience after college. Being a Peace Corps Volunteer had an incredible influence on my life and I ended up saving money while traveling back and forth across central america. Plus you end up loving the US while seeing all of its massive flaws in a way that can only be gained from the perspective of being on the outside looking back in.
STEM only, no "Ivy League", otw get a job, any job, and do your damndest to succeed at it so that you learn the practical "work skills" necessary to do well in any career.
My nieces are 8 and 5; my nephew 4. Their respective parents are accepting the reality that it is not only the schools’ jobs to prepare them for college or life, but that schools are actively failing. It’s on you.
It is my hope that when the younger end Generation Alpha grows up, they will want to legislate merit and alternate programs for parents who are using schools like holding pens while they grind away at (two) jobs, so those in school can learn again.
In Canada, university tuition is much less expensive than in the USA and we don’t have as strong a distinction between elite/non-elite schools. So the focus is: do I go? Do I go away or stay home? What do I study?
On these questions:
1. If you don’t absolutely need a degree to get the job you want, students should consider whether they like reading, math, and/or pure science. Even “practical” degrees like engineering will involve a huge amount of math and physics that you don’t need if you just want to build things, fix things, or operate things. I’ve met plenty of successful people who didn’t go to university but got really good at a specific valuable thing (especially sales) or started a business.
2. In Canada, the biggest cost of education (besides opportunity cost) is often living away from home. If there is a university you can attend while living at your parents’ house, consider that one. If you must go away, consider cheaper cities.
3. Pick a major that will develop your skills in one or more of the following:
- Writing
- Critical thinking
- The foundational knowledge of history, philosophy, economics, government and/or literature needed to be a good citizen
Great points and that's so interesting about the lesser distinction between elite and non elite in Canada. I wonder what the big-picture impact is, my guess is that's it's mostly positive.
One factor is that undergraduate university admissions are almost entirely based on high school grades. Some universities will ask for a personal statement or CV but they are usually only a factor if you have borderline grades. There is no equivalent of the American extracurricular activity and admissions essay arms race. It helps that the most well-known Canadian universities are large, publicly funded institutions that admit thousands of new students per year.
There is more competition for graduate and professional programs (law/med), but that competition happens at the undergraduate level, not in high school. And when I applied to law school grades and LSAT were still the major factors. I applied to three law schools and I think only one (McGill) even asked for reference letters.
Canadian universities don’t require the SAT for Canadian applicants, so most high school students don’t take it. Some provinces have standardized subject exams but I don’t recall much emphasis on preparing for those.
To add to this: the lack of elite/non-elite distinction in Canada also applies to law schools. Big firms like mine will hire graduates of any law school. Same for court clerkships - when I was clerking at the Supreme Court we had graduates of almost every Canadian law school. Some partners have told me they think all Canadian law schools are equally good.
I found a man in Scotland who posts videos about how he helps heal and maintain bovine hooves. To watch him care for and heal these animals is fascinating.
I also watch a Maine lobster fisherman. I did not know of the great lengths these industries go through to conserve and help populations grow.
A lot depends on a kid's goals and grades/test scores. But, generically, if a kid thinks they want to go into a trade, they should be working there part time during the high school academic year and full time during the summer to make sure they think it is a good fit. If not, and the teen is interested in college, don't go into debt attending a second tier private school. A big part of the benefit of a college degree is the "branding" and networking plus higher ranked schools tend to have better financial aid. Aim high for top schools and also apply to more affordable state schools which can help lower costs.
And be sure to graduate. Student loans without a college degree is a disaster financially.
"A big part of the benefit of a college degree is the "branding" and networking" so true and so interesting that that's often quite separate from what any individual student actually learns
College certainly isn't nessecary, but also don't completely dismiss it even if you have valid concerns. If you like to work with your hands, pick a trade, but if you're a smart kid and you're going to end up doing "brain work" as a career college is still a good place for mentorship. Yes, there are some wacky ideological professors, but many are still open-minded to good arguments and those are the people you want relationships with because they'll challenge you and sharpen your ideas. Whichever path you choose to go, all you really need is to find someone willing to take a chance on you and work hard.
If you have good grades and an interest in fields with a high ROI (medicine, engineering, computer science), then college is a good investment for you.
If your interests are in other areas, then be deliberate about keeping your costs low. Consider doing a couple years at a community college and transferring. Get part-time jobs on campus and summer jobs, so you graduate with a strong resume. Don't pay a premium to go to college in a fun but expensive city, but get a summer job or internship there. Think about minoring in something with a higher ROI, so you have some flexibility. Don't assume that because a job sounds practical that it must have a decent ROI - education is a prime example. If you start a program and look at the jobs board and only see crappy, low-paying jobs, then get out! (Or plan accordingly).
If you have no idea what you want from college, don't go right away. The absolute worst ROI is for people who drop out. Take a few classes at community college, try to talk to people in fields you might be interested in, work and save up some money to go traveling for a bit.
Thank you so much for this, Catherine. You lay it out so clearly, and this is a point more people need to hear: "Don't pay a premium to go to college in a fun but expensive city, but get a summer job or internship there." By the way, our contributor Randy Wayne, is also a plant biology prof at an American university (Cornell)
For a 10-year-old, I'd put off discussions of college and start with self-discovery and differentiation. First, I'd try to help them engage in activities where they can experience joy in work--and notice what that feels like. Second, I would want to help them notice ways they are alike and different from their family, friends, and the "hive mind" they may be beginning to encounter. Third, I'd try to help them keep as many doors open as possible. For example, a student may have an aptitude for math that is not being fully awakened or developed in their school environment. If appropriate, it may be worthwhile for them to have math tutoring. This can help struggling students avoid falling behind and help high-aptitude students get on the track, in middle school, for the high school courses that will expand their options for colleges and majors.
As a college student myself - do a bit of dual enrollment with a community college in high school. It's likely cheaper, and Gen-Eds are often annoying (and sometimes quite politically biased) in college, so if you can get them out of the way early, that's great. You get the added benefit of being able to register earlier than your peers if your college chooses registration dates by credit amount.
I was recently asked to sit on a panel for my high school alma mater about this very thing... so I wrote out my thoughts: https://hmm.vic.ooo/2025/01/23/on-choosing-a-college/
Wow, what timing. Thanks, Vic. Your post is packed with fantastic advice including this: "if it’s experiences you want, there are 1,001 better, faster, cheaper ways to get them than college."
Great advice. I would add the next advice would be to plan on homeschooling your kids, lol.
I went on a sort of cheerful rant... Don't know how much the cheer comes through in writing though 😂
ha, it comes through!
I am a retired college professor so I have put a lot of thought into this these past few years. I would recommend a gap year for many students, especially those that don't have a clear sense of what they want to do with a college degree. Travel might be great for those with means, but I think a service experience would be beneficial for many students. My father (also a college professor) thought everyone should work on a chicken farm for a year (he grew up on one and the experience helped him appreciate college more). Some students are ready for college at 18, but many are not. I saw these students struggle and wonder if they should have waited.
I know students who benefitted from large university campuses and others who loved their experiences at small liberal arts colleges. Heading for the elite colleges might benefit you with the connections you make, but there are benefits from other settings. I taught business at a very large, selective flagship university and at a small liberal arts college that took anyone with a heart beat. Both offered valuable experiences and challenges for students. I found that the students at the small college were given more room and encouragement to develop character and integrity. As an employer, I would not hesitate to hire them even if their GPAs and test scores were lower.
It may be hard, but I would encourage high school students to ask questions about whether they will have the freedom to disagree with their professors and their peers. Ignore the campus PR and go straight to the students. Some of my colleagues were great about encouraging debate. Others were terrible. It often depended upon the discipline.
So much to say, I'll stop there. I believe in the value of a higher education, but believe that there are other options that might better fit a students.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful post, Deborah. Re the freedom to disagree on campus, I recommend checking out FIRE's College Free Speech rankings. That should be a part of ever college-bound kid's process. And here's hoping more employers adopt your point of view: "I found that the students at the small college were given more room and encouragement to develop character and integrity. As an employer, I would not hesitate to hire them even if their GPAs and test scores were lower."
Enjoy activities you love in high school. Don't worry about things "looking good" for a college application. If it's something you really enjoy and it also helps you build connections and gain skills - whether that be with a part-time job, a sports team, doing theater productions, robotics, or something else - you will want to dedicate yourself to it, and that's what stands out on an application and increases your drive. However, if you are so attached to the outcome of the admissions process that's when things don't pay off. You have to enjoy yourself in come capacity, but also make sure to pay attention to your grades!
While it is aspirational to reach for an elite college, I think that it isn't worth the stress and the turmoil that comes with both trying to get in and with attending. While elite schools definitely have the brand name, sometimes being around people who are always "the best" can lead to impossible competition and will only benefit the true over achievers. You want to be able to join clubs and other things once you get onto campus! Also, from the past five years it's been shown how the inner workings of some universities discourages discord and nuance in conversation and thought, so it's worth it to do extra research on campus culture. Ask current students about their experiences, including what they like and don't like about their experiences.
Most importantly, don't think you have to do the four year college route. It's OK if you need to take a gap year after high school, and if it's simply getting a job and working for a full year it will help you make the most out of your college experience.
Lastly, your major DOES matter. While you shouldn't pick a major you will dread, it is also important you are realistic with your choice of major, and to learn real skills that will support you in the work force. As long as you can tolerate the majority of classes and can find some enjoyment, you will be fine. You can always take fun electives to mix things up, but your major will be on your resume when you apply for jobs, so pick carefully.
excellent points, Madeline. I really like this: "While it is aspirational to reach for an elite college, I think that it isn't worth the stress and the turmoil that comes with both trying to get in and with attending. While elite schools definitely have the brand name, sometimes being around people who are always "the best" can lead to impossible competition and will only benefit the true over achievers."
No matter what, take a gap year and travel. See the world on a shoestring budget. I don’t believe it’s possible to really know yourself at 18. Travel can help us figure out who we are and what matters to us.
Love the idea but I think the cost of this would be prohibitive for many/most kids. I would not have been able to swing it, since all of my earnings during high school went to pay for books etc in college.
Good point. I wonder what Maren would advise, but maybe simply working for a year would be the thing to do. And there are ways (e.g. teaching English) where you can work abroad to pay for the trip.
I'd suggest a service based experience after college. Being a Peace Corps Volunteer had an incredible influence on my life and I ended up saving money while traveling back and forth across central america. Plus you end up loving the US while seeing all of its massive flaws in a way that can only be gained from the perspective of being on the outside looking back in.
Yes, that outside looking in perspective is key. The Peace Corps made a big impact on my aunt and uncle
Love gap years! And yes, get lost in some foreign land and then figure it out.
So hard to get lost now thanks to apps and phones! What a loss! Lol
STEM only, no "Ivy League", otw get a job, any job, and do your damndest to succeed at it so that you learn the practical "work skills" necessary to do well in any career.
lots of goodness packed tight there. And STEM only? You're a hard liner!
My nieces are 8 and 5; my nephew 4. Their respective parents are accepting the reality that it is not only the schools’ jobs to prepare them for college or life, but that schools are actively failing. It’s on you.
It is my hope that when the younger end Generation Alpha grows up, they will want to legislate merit and alternate programs for parents who are using schools like holding pens while they grind away at (two) jobs, so those in school can learn again.
Great comments.
Right, Annie, more parents need to hear this: "schools are actively failing. It’s on you."
In Canada, university tuition is much less expensive than in the USA and we don’t have as strong a distinction between elite/non-elite schools. So the focus is: do I go? Do I go away or stay home? What do I study?
On these questions:
1. If you don’t absolutely need a degree to get the job you want, students should consider whether they like reading, math, and/or pure science. Even “practical” degrees like engineering will involve a huge amount of math and physics that you don’t need if you just want to build things, fix things, or operate things. I’ve met plenty of successful people who didn’t go to university but got really good at a specific valuable thing (especially sales) or started a business.
2. In Canada, the biggest cost of education (besides opportunity cost) is often living away from home. If there is a university you can attend while living at your parents’ house, consider that one. If you must go away, consider cheaper cities.
3. Pick a major that will develop your skills in one or more of the following:
- Writing
- Critical thinking
- The foundational knowledge of history, philosophy, economics, government and/or literature needed to be a good citizen
- A useful foreign language
- Math
- Computers
- Areas of science with industry application
Great points and that's so interesting about the lesser distinction between elite and non elite in Canada. I wonder what the big-picture impact is, my guess is that's it's mostly positive.
One factor is that undergraduate university admissions are almost entirely based on high school grades. Some universities will ask for a personal statement or CV but they are usually only a factor if you have borderline grades. There is no equivalent of the American extracurricular activity and admissions essay arms race. It helps that the most well-known Canadian universities are large, publicly funded institutions that admit thousands of new students per year.
There is more competition for graduate and professional programs (law/med), but that competition happens at the undergraduate level, not in high school. And when I applied to law school grades and LSAT were still the major factors. I applied to three law schools and I think only one (McGill) even asked for reference letters.
very interesting, so I assume no SAT obsession either.
Canadian universities don’t require the SAT for Canadian applicants, so most high school students don’t take it. Some provinces have standardized subject exams but I don’t recall much emphasis on preparing for those.
To add to this: the lack of elite/non-elite distinction in Canada also applies to law schools. Big firms like mine will hire graduates of any law school. Same for court clerkships - when I was clerking at the Supreme Court we had graduates of almost every Canadian law school. Some partners have told me they think all Canadian law schools are equally good.
Take classes in Computer Science and Math, but world traveling provides so much more than school provides.
I'd also learn animal husbandry and horticulture, but a lot of that can be learned on a farm or with FFA or 4H.
Lots of people overlook animal husbandry and the like -- great that you included it.
I found a man in Scotland who posts videos about how he helps heal and maintain bovine hooves. To watch him care for and heal these animals is fascinating.
I also watch a Maine lobster fisherman. I did not know of the great lengths these industries go through to conserve and help populations grow.
A lot depends on a kid's goals and grades/test scores. But, generically, if a kid thinks they want to go into a trade, they should be working there part time during the high school academic year and full time during the summer to make sure they think it is a good fit. If not, and the teen is interested in college, don't go into debt attending a second tier private school. A big part of the benefit of a college degree is the "branding" and networking plus higher ranked schools tend to have better financial aid. Aim high for top schools and also apply to more affordable state schools which can help lower costs.
And be sure to graduate. Student loans without a college degree is a disaster financially.
"A big part of the benefit of a college degree is the "branding" and networking" so true and so interesting that that's often quite separate from what any individual student actually learns
Learn a trade and take survey humanities and art courses at the nearest community college. Read and write on Substack. 😎
College certainly isn't nessecary, but also don't completely dismiss it even if you have valid concerns. If you like to work with your hands, pick a trade, but if you're a smart kid and you're going to end up doing "brain work" as a career college is still a good place for mentorship. Yes, there are some wacky ideological professors, but many are still open-minded to good arguments and those are the people you want relationships with because they'll challenge you and sharpen your ideas. Whichever path you choose to go, all you really need is to find someone willing to take a chance on you and work hard.
I'm a college professor. Research the return on investment for the programs you're looking at:
https://freopp.org/whitepapers/does-college-pay-off-a-comprehensive-return-on-investment-analysis/
If you have good grades and an interest in fields with a high ROI (medicine, engineering, computer science), then college is a good investment for you.
If your interests are in other areas, then be deliberate about keeping your costs low. Consider doing a couple years at a community college and transferring. Get part-time jobs on campus and summer jobs, so you graduate with a strong resume. Don't pay a premium to go to college in a fun but expensive city, but get a summer job or internship there. Think about minoring in something with a higher ROI, so you have some flexibility. Don't assume that because a job sounds practical that it must have a decent ROI - education is a prime example. If you start a program and look at the jobs board and only see crappy, low-paying jobs, then get out! (Or plan accordingly).
If you have no idea what you want from college, don't go right away. The absolute worst ROI is for people who drop out. Take a few classes at community college, try to talk to people in fields you might be interested in, work and save up some money to go traveling for a bit.
Thank you so much for this, Catherine. You lay it out so clearly, and this is a point more people need to hear: "Don't pay a premium to go to college in a fun but expensive city, but get a summer job or internship there." By the way, our contributor Randy Wayne, is also a plant biology prof at an American university (Cornell)
For a 10-year-old, I'd put off discussions of college and start with self-discovery and differentiation. First, I'd try to help them engage in activities where they can experience joy in work--and notice what that feels like. Second, I would want to help them notice ways they are alike and different from their family, friends, and the "hive mind" they may be beginning to encounter. Third, I'd try to help them keep as many doors open as possible. For example, a student may have an aptitude for math that is not being fully awakened or developed in their school environment. If appropriate, it may be worthwhile for them to have math tutoring. This can help struggling students avoid falling behind and help high-aptitude students get on the track, in middle school, for the high school courses that will expand their options for colleges and majors.
Three wise pieces of advice, and I certainly agree that 10 is too young to be focused on college
As a college student myself - do a bit of dual enrollment with a community college in high school. It's likely cheaper, and Gen-Eds are often annoying (and sometimes quite politically biased) in college, so if you can get them out of the way early, that's great. You get the added benefit of being able to register earlier than your peers if your college chooses registration dates by credit amount.
Good advice, Aidan. Nice to start college ahead of the game.