And can we emphasize how important it is to distinguish that "therapeutic" approaches may affect BOYS and GIRLS differently?!! There is a gender difference. And when nearly ALL the teachers that may enjoy talking about feelings and "trauma" with their students (b/c they probably need their own friends to pyschobabble with), when most of these teachers are FEMALE - I'm pretty sure all the male students and probably lots of the female students just check out. Is it no wonder boys just hate school?
I see it in action - how my son deals with "conflicts" between his sports teammates. It is totally different than what a girl would do.
I know when I was a student, I would NOT want to talk to my teachers about my "problems."
**this also reflects a very traditional Asian ethos - that you don't brownnose to your teachers by talking about anything other than the school work. Everything must strictly be based on "merit." You would never talk about anything personal with your teachers - b/c if you did complain about something at home, you would be seen as WEAK and making excuses. But this mentality seems to have disappeared - even amongst Asian-Americans. Thanks for softening us up America! LOL.
I have MANY responses to this article and will need to process the information presented, synthesize my responses, reflect and will compose my full response in a few days. I am a mental health therapist providing services to elementary age children in low SES areas to children with significant trauma history. Before this, I provided mental health services to children and their families across home, school and community settings- of all different socioeconomic statuses, locations, diagnoses and social/emotional/behavioral issues. I have been doing this work for over 15 years and have first hand experience providing support to children, families and teachers/educational team members. This is a topic that hits close to my heart and am glad people are talking about
To clarify, my concern about the harms of mental health programming in our K12 schools is confined to lessons, assemblies, school messaging, school counselor sessions and classroom activities that purport to be “preventative” and are universally applied. In other words, I do not suggest we eliminate interventions for kids with real trauma. I am saying, let’s not treat whole school populations of kids as patients. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts on the matter, as your perspective as a professional in the field is invaluable.
Perhaps, the important difference is that as your article presents - many schools blanket their curriculums with a trauma-informed angle - but the majority of these schools probably have a student population from the middle to high socioeconomic areas. Whereas the students in low-performing schools, low socioeconomic areas, do not have the resources or qualified teachers to implement appropriate "trauma-informed" care. Their resources are spent on Head-Start type of programs that enforce early academics.
This is based on the idea that a kid from a disadvantaged background can achieve the American Dream simply by excelling in school - learning abc's and 123's early will help. But this is false.
A child from an unstable and dysfunctional environment will be most helped by a proper therapeutic approach in learning how to self-regulate, communicate clearly, and plan for the future. Not until these essential skills are taught, do abc's and 123's make any difference.
Two different types of student populations require two different approaches I would think.
I agree with some of what is said here and with what Shrier argues. Namely, schools should not be therapeutic settings (they're not designed for that), kids should not be taught or expected to constantly feel good/happy, and taking such approaches is bad for the development and mental health of kids. But some claims are painted with too broad of a brush. While some SEL approaches have turned "therapeutic," most have not and this was not the original intent of SEL. Also, I have seen no evidence that SEL programming produces more harm than good and is contributing to the mental health crisis in ways some argue. This is an empirical question and needs to be argued with evidence. I think there is an important place for SEL, but not for the kinds depicted here and by Shrier. I say more on this in Education Next: https://www.educationnext.org/is-social-and-emotional-learning-bad-therapy/
Yes I agree with most of the article. Although we do need to honor our feelings but at a young age kids need to be guided to complete tasks, that not everyone gets a trophy and there are rewards in our society for various achievements. Also to your point about telling people they are experiencing symptoms leading to more of those symptoms - the same could be said with all the pharmaceutical ads we are seeing since they allowed pharmaceutical companies to advertise directly to the public. Now we see a rise in all sorts of conditions to "get cured of" on a regular basis that contributes to the overuse of drugs in the same way as the the constant suggestion of mental issues is contributing to the over sensitivity of the younger generation.
One last thought... I feel like there's a HUGE gap researchers of the Gen Z mental health crisis are missing: Self-diagnosis and over-diagnosis.
Social media usually gets the blame, but social media promotes bad information on what counts as anxiety/depression, has a trend going on to "be vulnerable," and would be able to give you the advice on how to get a diagnosis even if you don't qualify. There's enough incompetent professionals out there that shopping labels is really easy, if anything, some doctors see them as essential tools to always identify.
I've met a social worker who told me when he evaluates his patients, he actually asks them, "You meet the criteria for this diagnosis, would you like to have it?"
If doctors can avoid a diagnosis just because of a patient's feelings, I'm sure they can hand them out like candy too.
Yikes! :I've met a social worker who told me when he evaluates his patients, he actually asks them, "You meet the criteria for this diagnosis, would you like to have it?"
That is not standard practice and does not represent the mental health profession servicing children and their families on the whole. Also, social workers cannot evaluate or diagnose mental health conditions so….. yeah that’s a red flag for that individual you are referencing not the field
While it's not good to bottle things up, there is also a very important need to learn emotional resiliency. I've been working hard at that lately, and it's been great for me!
It's possible to be upset, even upset in a way that deserves listening and attention from others, without being "traumatized" or "depressed." Unfortunately, a diagnosis is almost a requirement to get your feelings taken seriously nowadays.
This reminds me too much of my own education, a system I can testify made me feel like a lab rat.
Mental health awareness missed one crucial element: When SHOULDN'T you see a therapist? What ISN'T a disorder? This even does a disservice to those with legitimate anxiety or depression, as the general population starts to see those things as normal nerves, and their truly serious symptoms aren't taken as seriously.
I'm not sure what the best path forward is here. I agree that there are downsides to increasing awareness of mental health issues. I also know from my own experience (I'm 21 FWIW) I was taught to ignore my feelings and suck it up and it was very harmful for me. I've struggled with panic attacks my entire life and "sucking it up" meant that I couldn't really connect with anybody or be there for them bc all my energy went to trying to manage my own attacks.
You could argue that's not most kids, maybe it isn't, I'm really not sure, but even if it's 1% I care about those kids and want them to be less messed up by that rhetoric than I was.
Sorry to hear about that, Clare. That sounds terrible. I think we can overdo it in either direction. The trick is finding the "sweet spot" between too much emoting and too much stoicism.
I disagree with this statement about Stoicism. Stoicism isn’t about not feeling or expressing your emotions. It’s about understanding your emotions as information, then CHOOSING how to respond vs reacting. It’s about being mindful about emotions and learning how to regulate yourself and your actions. It’s very effective in teaching children true emotional intelligence. And allows for resiliency and can focus on virtues vs being a victim. One of my favorite quotes from a parenting book I read when my kids were young is “No one can make you mad without your permission.” This is very similar to the thoughts of Marcus Aurelius and very helpful when teaching young people how to behave.
Teachers are not trained to teach children these types of psychoeducational concepts, nor should they be. School is for school. Despite how that may sound, this really is the kids first way.
Many people persist in believing kids benefit from a focus on their emotional state in the classroom, but this is just not supported by research.
Today’s kids aren’t learning that emotions are unreliable. They are not learning to be skeptical that their feelings reflect an accurate picture of the world. They are not learning the essential life skill of ignoring their emotions entirely.
As a result, young people are ill-equipped to grapple with their growing-up struggles successfully, as we are seeing.
Nothing like this can be done in a large factory type setting like school. Of course it will go wrong! We were never meant to send our kids out of the care of family and the village for the entire day and standardize an experience for them.
I am homeschooling my kids and a few others after enjoying a small independent schooling experience for K-8. Children need adults that are dynamic and engaged in who they are becoming on all levels.
Fascinating research on the brain and our instincts in “The Master and His Emissary” makes me think that a redefinition of “emotions”, “feelings”, “intuition”, “senses”, “instinct” could be helpful in raising adults more connected to the world around us. The somatic experience of life is also very overlooked in the modernity of life.
I have no desire to help on a grand scale anymore. I hope to make an impact on my small sphere and leave this life having done a little good for it. As much as I like all the research and discussion around all this, I feel called to just do what I can do to the best I can and discern from my emotions, senses, feeling and intuition to truly hear what’s best for my children and family and lean into what is good and true and beautiful. 💕
The “sweet spot” varies from person to person. There is not a specific criteria that can be blanket statement applied to each unique individual as everyone’s mind processes and expresses information differently and everyone’s personal emotional awareness and communication of symptoms varies.
I miss the days when the standard response was “Suck it up, buttercup!”
Those were the days!
And can we emphasize how important it is to distinguish that "therapeutic" approaches may affect BOYS and GIRLS differently?!! There is a gender difference. And when nearly ALL the teachers that may enjoy talking about feelings and "trauma" with their students (b/c they probably need their own friends to pyschobabble with), when most of these teachers are FEMALE - I'm pretty sure all the male students and probably lots of the female students just check out. Is it no wonder boys just hate school?
I see it in action - how my son deals with "conflicts" between his sports teammates. It is totally different than what a girl would do.
I know when I was a student, I would NOT want to talk to my teachers about my "problems."
**this also reflects a very traditional Asian ethos - that you don't brownnose to your teachers by talking about anything other than the school work. Everything must strictly be based on "merit." You would never talk about anything personal with your teachers - b/c if you did complain about something at home, you would be seen as WEAK and making excuses. But this mentality seems to have disappeared - even amongst Asian-Americans. Thanks for softening us up America! LOL.
Really great points, all. TRUE.
I have MANY responses to this article and will need to process the information presented, synthesize my responses, reflect and will compose my full response in a few days. I am a mental health therapist providing services to elementary age children in low SES areas to children with significant trauma history. Before this, I provided mental health services to children and their families across home, school and community settings- of all different socioeconomic statuses, locations, diagnoses and social/emotional/behavioral issues. I have been doing this work for over 15 years and have first hand experience providing support to children, families and teachers/educational team members. This is a topic that hits close to my heart and am glad people are talking about
To clarify, my concern about the harms of mental health programming in our K12 schools is confined to lessons, assemblies, school messaging, school counselor sessions and classroom activities that purport to be “preventative” and are universally applied. In other words, I do not suggest we eliminate interventions for kids with real trauma. I am saying, let’s not treat whole school populations of kids as patients. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts on the matter, as your perspective as a professional in the field is invaluable.
Perhaps, the important difference is that as your article presents - many schools blanket their curriculums with a trauma-informed angle - but the majority of these schools probably have a student population from the middle to high socioeconomic areas. Whereas the students in low-performing schools, low socioeconomic areas, do not have the resources or qualified teachers to implement appropriate "trauma-informed" care. Their resources are spent on Head-Start type of programs that enforce early academics.
This is based on the idea that a kid from a disadvantaged background can achieve the American Dream simply by excelling in school - learning abc's and 123's early will help. But this is false.
A child from an unstable and dysfunctional environment will be most helped by a proper therapeutic approach in learning how to self-regulate, communicate clearly, and plan for the future. Not until these essential skills are taught, do abc's and 123's make any difference.
Two different types of student populations require two different approaches I would think.
I agree with some of what is said here and with what Shrier argues. Namely, schools should not be therapeutic settings (they're not designed for that), kids should not be taught or expected to constantly feel good/happy, and taking such approaches is bad for the development and mental health of kids. But some claims are painted with too broad of a brush. While some SEL approaches have turned "therapeutic," most have not and this was not the original intent of SEL. Also, I have seen no evidence that SEL programming produces more harm than good and is contributing to the mental health crisis in ways some argue. This is an empirical question and needs to be argued with evidence. I think there is an important place for SEL, but not for the kinds depicted here and by Shrier. I say more on this in Education Next: https://www.educationnext.org/is-social-and-emotional-learning-bad-therapy/
Yes I agree with most of the article. Although we do need to honor our feelings but at a young age kids need to be guided to complete tasks, that not everyone gets a trophy and there are rewards in our society for various achievements. Also to your point about telling people they are experiencing symptoms leading to more of those symptoms - the same could be said with all the pharmaceutical ads we are seeing since they allowed pharmaceutical companies to advertise directly to the public. Now we see a rise in all sorts of conditions to "get cured of" on a regular basis that contributes to the overuse of drugs in the same way as the the constant suggestion of mental issues is contributing to the over sensitivity of the younger generation.
Yes, indeed, very interesting parallel
Great connection (pharmaceuticals). Yes, human beings are highly suggestible. Juvenile humans even more so.
One last thought... I feel like there's a HUGE gap researchers of the Gen Z mental health crisis are missing: Self-diagnosis and over-diagnosis.
Social media usually gets the blame, but social media promotes bad information on what counts as anxiety/depression, has a trend going on to "be vulnerable," and would be able to give you the advice on how to get a diagnosis even if you don't qualify. There's enough incompetent professionals out there that shopping labels is really easy, if anything, some doctors see them as essential tools to always identify.
I've met a social worker who told me when he evaluates his patients, he actually asks them, "You meet the criteria for this diagnosis, would you like to have it?"
If doctors can avoid a diagnosis just because of a patient's feelings, I'm sure they can hand them out like candy too.
I've lived this. It needs more attention.
Yikes! :I've met a social worker who told me when he evaluates his patients, he actually asks them, "You meet the criteria for this diagnosis, would you like to have it?"
That is not standard practice and does not represent the mental health profession servicing children and their families on the whole. Also, social workers cannot evaluate or diagnose mental health conditions so….. yeah that’s a red flag for that individual you are referencing not the field
Excellent, excellent point, Margo. Yes. 100%.
YES to everything in this post! Thank you!
While it's not good to bottle things up, there is also a very important need to learn emotional resiliency. I've been working hard at that lately, and it's been great for me!
It's possible to be upset, even upset in a way that deserves listening and attention from others, without being "traumatized" or "depressed." Unfortunately, a diagnosis is almost a requirement to get your feelings taken seriously nowadays.
This reminds me too much of my own education, a system I can testify made me feel like a lab rat.
Mental health awareness missed one crucial element: When SHOULDN'T you see a therapist? What ISN'T a disorder? This even does a disservice to those with legitimate anxiety or depression, as the general population starts to see those things as normal nerves, and their truly serious symptoms aren't taken as seriously.
I appreciate your comments so much, Margo. 😊
I'm not sure what the best path forward is here. I agree that there are downsides to increasing awareness of mental health issues. I also know from my own experience (I'm 21 FWIW) I was taught to ignore my feelings and suck it up and it was very harmful for me. I've struggled with panic attacks my entire life and "sucking it up" meant that I couldn't really connect with anybody or be there for them bc all my energy went to trying to manage my own attacks.
You could argue that's not most kids, maybe it isn't, I'm really not sure, but even if it's 1% I care about those kids and want them to be less messed up by that rhetoric than I was.
Sorry to hear about that, Clare. That sounds terrible. I think we can overdo it in either direction. The trick is finding the "sweet spot" between too much emoting and too much stoicism.
I disagree with this statement about Stoicism. Stoicism isn’t about not feeling or expressing your emotions. It’s about understanding your emotions as information, then CHOOSING how to respond vs reacting. It’s about being mindful about emotions and learning how to regulate yourself and your actions. It’s very effective in teaching children true emotional intelligence. And allows for resiliency and can focus on virtues vs being a victim. One of my favorite quotes from a parenting book I read when my kids were young is “No one can make you mad without your permission.” This is very similar to the thoughts of Marcus Aurelius and very helpful when teaching young people how to behave.
Teachers are not trained to teach children these types of psychoeducational concepts, nor should they be. School is for school. Despite how that may sound, this really is the kids first way.
Many people persist in believing kids benefit from a focus on their emotional state in the classroom, but this is just not supported by research.
Today’s kids aren’t learning that emotions are unreliable. They are not learning to be skeptical that their feelings reflect an accurate picture of the world. They are not learning the essential life skill of ignoring their emotions entirely.
As a result, young people are ill-equipped to grapple with their growing-up struggles successfully, as we are seeing.
Nothing like this can be done in a large factory type setting like school. Of course it will go wrong! We were never meant to send our kids out of the care of family and the village for the entire day and standardize an experience for them.
I am homeschooling my kids and a few others after enjoying a small independent schooling experience for K-8. Children need adults that are dynamic and engaged in who they are becoming on all levels.
Fascinating research on the brain and our instincts in “The Master and His Emissary” makes me think that a redefinition of “emotions”, “feelings”, “intuition”, “senses”, “instinct” could be helpful in raising adults more connected to the world around us. The somatic experience of life is also very overlooked in the modernity of life.
I have no desire to help on a grand scale anymore. I hope to make an impact on my small sphere and leave this life having done a little good for it. As much as I like all the research and discussion around all this, I feel called to just do what I can do to the best I can and discern from my emotions, senses, feeling and intuition to truly hear what’s best for my children and family and lean into what is good and true and beautiful. 💕
The “sweet spot” varies from person to person. There is not a specific criteria that can be blanket statement applied to each unique individual as everyone’s mind processes and expresses information differently and everyone’s personal emotional awareness and communication of symptoms varies.
Definitely!