I remember teachers in HS who were renowned as hard graders, which they were, but they were also fair. In the beginning, getting papers returned filled with red ink was discouraging yet I learned. When you submitted a paper she liked, you knew it was for real and she wouldn't just say this is good, but went into detail what she liked about it and why it worked. Knowing how to give constructive praise is just as important as knowing how to give constructive criticism. I learned that from her.
This is so frustrating to hear about, and the polar opposite of my university journalism courses in the late 2000s, where my articles often came back covered in red ink. The instructor just assumed we could take the criticism - and, if we couldn’t, we weren’t cut out for the program.
One of the most important lessons for a budding writer is that the reader can’t read your mind. They can only read your words. There will often be a gap between your intended effect and what you achieve. Often you need feedback to see that gap, and giving feedback can help you see those gaps in your own work.
This course could have been so much better if the instructor started by teaching students how to give constructive, respectful feedback instead of assuming students were incapable of giving or taking such feedback.
Right. It's a two-way street. There's an art to delivering constructive feedback in a non-jerky way. But the receiver of the feedback also has to learn how to take some lumps.
Not that advocating for this, but my university teachers were merciless. If they thought our work was garbage, they would tell you. In those terms or harsher.
Heck. We were hard on each other. I remember a girlfriend's project being the butt of our jokes for years. And you know what. She got better. So much that later in our careers she was my boss for a while.
I wish I could've taken a course like that in high school...
You're right about that gap, it's one of the most frequent things that comes up in my own revision process nowadays. Sometimes, I want to clarify the message, other times, I wonder if it's better to leave things up for interpretation.
But of course, I can't get any of that information without any reader feedback.
There’s a similar “anti-critique” culture in fanfiction. It’s considered unacceptable to do anything but shower praise on a writer. So many writers now get started in fandom spaces, but there’s a real risk they will get stuck there if that’s their only source of feedback. They won’t improve and they’ll either be overconfident (if they take the praise too seriously) or insecure (if they suspect the compliments aren’t genuine).
Yes, praise-showerings do really mess with the writer's mind! I definitely fall into the latter camp. Most praise I've heard has been fake, so how can I trust compliments?
I belong to a writer's group. We've discussed this matter. Others have belonged to groups where everyone just sits around and says nice things. That may be good for weak egos, but it sucks for developing skills.
I've had a similar experience when trying an in-person group. Though I got some constructive feedback when asked, this happened only when the right people were present, and the group description specifically requested a "gentle critique."
I think when it comes to art and writing pursuits, it’s hyped up as some kind of sacred talent where you either have what it takes or you don’t. All or nothing. And that contributes to an atmosphere where an inexperienced young writer or artist can feel permanently discouraged if they get even gentle critique.
We were taught to give negative feedback in the form of “Here is what doesn’t work.” I like it because it underscores the idea that mistakes aren’t the end of the world, and art and writing and music are actually like any other skill where you can improve your baseline with hard work. Innate talent is a factor, but not the only factor.
That's a smart way to give out feedback. It automatically sets you up to have to follow up with constructive tips, and it makes it about the art, not the artist. That's another thing I see a lot - writers, artists, creatives, etc. can treat art like it defines their entire worth as a person, and one of the biggest lessons to learn when it comes to preparing yourself to take criticism is understanding that a bad drawing, story, etc. doesn't make you, the creator, a bad person.
I remember teachers in HS who were renowned as hard graders, which they were, but they were also fair. In the beginning, getting papers returned filled with red ink was discouraging yet I learned. When you submitted a paper she liked, you knew it was for real and she wouldn't just say this is good, but went into detail what she liked about it and why it worked. Knowing how to give constructive praise is just as important as knowing how to give constructive criticism. I learned that from her.
This is so frustrating to hear about, and the polar opposite of my university journalism courses in the late 2000s, where my articles often came back covered in red ink. The instructor just assumed we could take the criticism - and, if we couldn’t, we weren’t cut out for the program.
One of the most important lessons for a budding writer is that the reader can’t read your mind. They can only read your words. There will often be a gap between your intended effect and what you achieve. Often you need feedback to see that gap, and giving feedback can help you see those gaps in your own work.
This course could have been so much better if the instructor started by teaching students how to give constructive, respectful feedback instead of assuming students were incapable of giving or taking such feedback.
Right. It's a two-way street. There's an art to delivering constructive feedback in a non-jerky way. But the receiver of the feedback also has to learn how to take some lumps.
Absolutely!
Not that advocating for this, but my university teachers were merciless. If they thought our work was garbage, they would tell you. In those terms or harsher.
Heck. We were hard on each other. I remember a girlfriend's project being the butt of our jokes for years. And you know what. She got better. So much that later in our careers she was my boss for a while.
I wish I could've taken a course like that in high school...
You're right about that gap, it's one of the most frequent things that comes up in my own revision process nowadays. Sometimes, I want to clarify the message, other times, I wonder if it's better to leave things up for interpretation.
But of course, I can't get any of that information without any reader feedback.
There’s a similar “anti-critique” culture in fanfiction. It’s considered unacceptable to do anything but shower praise on a writer. So many writers now get started in fandom spaces, but there’s a real risk they will get stuck there if that’s their only source of feedback. They won’t improve and they’ll either be overconfident (if they take the praise too seriously) or insecure (if they suspect the compliments aren’t genuine).
Yes, praise-showerings do really mess with the writer's mind! I definitely fall into the latter camp. Most praise I've heard has been fake, so how can I trust compliments?
I belong to a writer's group. We've discussed this matter. Others have belonged to groups where everyone just sits around and says nice things. That may be good for weak egos, but it sucks for developing skills.
I've had a similar experience when trying an in-person group. Though I got some constructive feedback when asked, this happened only when the right people were present, and the group description specifically requested a "gentle critique."
I have no problem with being gentle. But that doesn't preclude being honest.
I think when it comes to art and writing pursuits, it’s hyped up as some kind of sacred talent where you either have what it takes or you don’t. All or nothing. And that contributes to an atmosphere where an inexperienced young writer or artist can feel permanently discouraged if they get even gentle critique.
We were taught to give negative feedback in the form of “Here is what doesn’t work.” I like it because it underscores the idea that mistakes aren’t the end of the world, and art and writing and music are actually like any other skill where you can improve your baseline with hard work. Innate talent is a factor, but not the only factor.
That's a smart way to give out feedback. It automatically sets you up to have to follow up with constructive tips, and it makes it about the art, not the artist. That's another thing I see a lot - writers, artists, creatives, etc. can treat art like it defines their entire worth as a person, and one of the biggest lessons to learn when it comes to preparing yourself to take criticism is understanding that a bad drawing, story, etc. doesn't make you, the creator, a bad person.